The first-ever pope from the United States is clashing with the White House. Pope Leo XIV, head of the Catholic Church, which counts more than a billion people in the world as its members, has spoken out forcefully against war. He said in his Palm Sunday address that Jesus “does not listen to the prayers of those who wage war … [whose] hands are full of blood.” In response, President Donald Trump said Pope Leo is “weak on crime, and terrible for foreign policy.” Trump is also under fire for sharing an AI-generated image that appears to show himself as Jesus Christ. Pressed about the controversy in an interview on Fox News, Trump’s Catholic Vice President JD Vance said the pope should “stick to matters of morality.”

“I don’t know any other more pressing moral issues than war and peace, taking care of the poor, the sick, the homeless, the stranger,” says Father James Martin, a writer and Jesuit priest. “I don’t understand how Vice President Vance cannot see that war is a moral issue. … This idea that some people don’t deserve mercy is completely against the Christian message.”

Transcript

AMY GOODMAN: We turn now to escalating tensions between the president and the pope, following President Trump’s unprecedented attacks on Pope Leo over the pope’s vocal opposition to war. Last month, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth publicly prayed for, quote, “overwhelming violence” against, quote, “those who deserve no mercy.” During his Palm Sunday address, Pope Leo said Jesus Christ rejects the prayers of those who wage war.

POPE LEO XIV: [translated] Brothers and sisters, this is our God, Jesus, king of peace, who rejects war, whom no one can use to justify war. He does not listen to the prayers of those who wage war, but rejects them, saying, “Even though you make many prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are full of blood.”

AMY GOODMAN: “Your hands are full of blood,” the pope said.

On Sunday night, Trump criticized Pope Leo, the first U.S.-born Catholic pontiff, in a lengthy message on Truth Social, calling him “weak on crime, terrible for foreign policy.”

On a flight en route to Algiers to begin a 10-day tour of four African countries, Pope Leo said he would not shy away from the message of the Gospel.

POPE LEO XIV: I don’t want to get into a debate with him. I don’t think that the message of the Gospel is meant to be abused in the way that some people are doing. And I will continue to speak out loudly against war.

AMY GOODMAN: President Trump also sparked widespread outrage by posting an AI-generated image of himself as Jesus Christ laying his hand on a sick or dying man. In the image, Trump is wearing a white robe and red cloak. After being accused of blasphemy by some supporters, Trump deleted the image 12 hours after it was first posted. This was Trump’s response when asked by reporters about it.

WEIJIA JIANG: Mr. President, did you post that picture of yourself depicted as Jesus Christ?

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, it wasn’t depiction. It was me. I did post it, and I thought it was me as a doctor, and had to do with Red Cross. There’s a Red Cross worker there, which we support. And only the fake news could come up with that one.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re joined now by Father James Martin, prominent Jesuit priest, editor-at-large of America magazine, the author of the new book, Work in Progress: Confessions of a Busboy, Dishwasher, Caddy, Usher, Factory Worker, Bank Teller, Corporate Tool, and Priest. He has described Trump’s attacks on the pope as unhinged, uncharitable and un-Christian.

Welcome to Democracy Now!, Father. It’s great to have you with us. Can you explain this unprecedented attack by a American president on the pope?

FATHER JAMES MARTIN: Well, it’s actually hard to explain. But I think what probably happened was, on 60 Minutes, there was a special with Cardinals McElroy, Tobin and Cupich, you know, who were very strong against the war. Cardinal McElroy, who is a theologian and a political scientist, called the war unjust. And that seemed to have sparked the outrage from President Trump, who did launch into this personal ad hominem attack against the Holy Father, and then, as you said, followed it up with the tweet of him as Jesus. So, it seems to have been, you know, a kind of late-night anger that he took out on the pope, and that he decided that he wanted to place himself in the role of Jesus. That’s how I see it.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Father Martin, I wanted to ask you about all these almost unhinged comments in recent weeks of the president — for instance, on Easter Sunday itself, the holiest day of the year for Catholics, him threatening to bomb Iran into the Stone Age. Your reaction to how this is — how this is playing out among Catholics around the world?

FATHER JAMES MARTIN: Yeah, and I would say Easter is the holiest day of year — the holiest day of the year for Christians, as well. We have to remember, you know, Jesus comes back after the resurrection. His first words to the disciples are “Peace be with you,” not, you know, “Vengeance is mine.”

How is this playing out? Catholics, from the progressive side to the traditional side, were appalled by the president’s attacks on the pope, because they were so mean-spirited, so personal, so outrageous, that it is really, you know, kind of an attack on the church, because the pope is the visible representative of the church. And I think people feel that they — Catholics feel that they are being attacked, as well. So, really, very personal, very mean-spirited, and also, as I said, unhinged.

AMY GOODMAN: Vice President JD Vance, a Catholic convert, appeared on Fox News last night. He said this.

VICE PRESIDENT JD VANCE: I certainly think that in some cases it would be best for the Vatican to stick to matters of morality, to stick to matters of, you know, what’s going on in the Catholic Church, and let the president of the United States stick to dictating American public policy.

AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s JD Vance. If you can respond to that and also the AI image Trump posted of himself as Jesus Christ? But start with Vance.

FATHER JAMES MARTIN: Yeah, he said the Catholic Church should stick to matters of morality. I don’t know any other more pressing moral issues than war and peace, than taking care of the poor, the sick, the homeless, the stranger. These are moral issues, right? And so, that is exactly what Pope Leo has been doing. He has been talking about these moral issues. And so, I don’t understand how Vice President Vance cannot see that war is a moral issue.

Secondly, this idea of President Trump posting a picture of himself as Jesus, you know, some have called it blasphemous, which is, you know, speaking ill words against God. But I think it’s more idolatry. I mean, the first commandment says, “You shall have no other gods before me,” right? And that includes President Trump. So, the idea that someone could see themselves in the role of Jesus and then actually post it online like that really sort of is hard to imagine, and particularly for someone who calls himself a Christian.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: President Trump has surrounded himself with evangelical advisers who frame his policies as divinely sanctioned. And his spiritual adviser, Paula White-Cain, has declared that, quote, “To say no to President Trump would be to say no to God.” What do you say to that and the evangelicals around him that promote these views?

FATHER JAMES MARTIN: Yeah, to speak in religious terms and to speak to evangelicals and Christians, that’s idolatry. I mean, that’s what that is. I mean, if you’re saying that President Trump is equivalent to God and that what President Trump does and thinks and how he acts is equivalent to God is idolatry. And that’s against the first commandment. So, I think it’s — I think it’s kind of just insane. And it also implies that God is, therefore — if God is only on our side, that God is somehow against other people — right? — and wants Iranians to die and wants our enemies to die. And again, Jesus’s message is “Blessed are the peacemakers,” not “Blessed are the warmongers.” And again, his message after the resurrection is “Peace be with you,” not “I’m going to take revenge.” But, you know, what Paula White was saying was idolatry, and that’s against the first commandment, period.

AMY GOODMAN: And Defense Secretary Hegseth recently leading a prayer at the Pentagon, asking God to pour down “overwhelming violence of action against those who deserve no mercy”? Can you talk about how the pope responded when he said, “Even though you make many prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are full of blood”? Pope Leo said that.

FATHER JAMES MARTIN: Yeah, God is a god of life. This idea that no one does — some people don’t deserve mercy is completely against the Christian message. So, on pretty much every measure, it fails as a Christian message. You know, calling down violence against somebody, saying that someone doesn’t deserve mercy, saying that God is only on our side, I mean, it’s a real perversion of the Gospels.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you, Father James Martin, Jesuit priest, editor-at-large of America magazine, author of the new book, Work in Progress.

That does it for our show. I’ll be speaking today after the 1:30 screening of Steal This Story, Please! at the IFC in the Village. We’ll be doing the Q&A with the co-director, Carl Deal. I’ll also be speaking tonight at the Q&A after the screening of the film at the Cinema Arts Center in Huntington. Tomorrow, we head to Los Angeles, where we’ll be at the different Laemmle Theatres, and then to San Francisco this weekend to be at the Roxie in San Francisco, at the [Rafael] in San Rafael, and in Berkeley. You can go to democracynow.org to see all the details. This is the first week of Steal This Story, Please!, the film screening around the country. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González, for another edition of Democracy Now!