The growing controversy over AIPAC’s impact on U.S. politics is the subject of a new Zeteo documentary titled Night Flower: Inside AIPAC’s Fight for Influence. The film examines AIPAC’s history and its role in shaping U.S. policy toward Israel, and questions whether its activities warrant further scrutiny under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, or FARA. “It says that you have to register under this law if you are acting at the request of a foreign government,” says Dion Nissenbaum, the filmmaker behind Night Flower: Inside AIPAC’s Fight for Influence. “And we talked to numerous people who showed us several examples of how AIPAC is acting at the request of Israel.”

Referencing the title of the film, Night Flower, Zeteo editor-in-chief Mehdi Hasan says AIPAC “blossoms in the dark, shrivels in the light. We’re trying to put some sunlight onto AIPAC.”

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, as we continue our look at the role of AIPAC in this year’s midterm elections, let’s turn to the trailer for the new Zeteo documentary, your documentary, Night Flower: Inside AIPAC’s Fight for Influence.

DION NISSENBAUM: What is it that you fear about speaking out?

FORMER AIPAC STAFFER: I’m afraid of some form of retaliation from AIPAC. I decided to speak out because I’m disappointed. Something has to change.

ALI VELSHI: You may know AIPAC as being one of the biggest and most recognizable donors to many of the members of Congress in your state.

SEN. FRITZ HOLLINGS: You can’t have an Israel policy other than what AIPAC gives you.

DION NISSENBAUM: Why do you think they refuse to engage?

I am here to see Deryn Sousa at AIPAC. She’s the spokesperson.

AIPAC STAFFER: You’re going to have to come back.

LARA FRIEDMAN: If I’m someone who wants to defend AIPAC, my problem isn’t that you’re going to get the story wrong. My problem is that you’re going to get the story right.

PROTESTER: AIPAC, AIPAC, we know you!

KAT ABUGHAZALEH: The American people don’t like that AIPAC is trying to buy our elections.

MAYOR DANIEL BISS: AIPAC basically performs antisemitic tropes, and then criticizes the people who just describe the thing that just happened. It’s really disingenuous, and it’s really dangerous.

DION NISSENBAUM: This is a crossroads for AIPAC.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: In terms of public consciousness and awareness, they are losing power.

REP. THOMAS MASSIE: The problem is, all these politicians up here have taken money.

DION NISSENBAUM: It’s been interesting to see a new generation asking, “What is this group? And who do they actually represent?”

DAVID LAUFMAN: The question is: Is AIPAC doing it on their own volition, or are they doing it at the order, direction or control of the Israeli government? Let’s open up the entrails of the bird and see what we can see.

DION NISSENBAUM: How would you describe the relationship between AIPAC and the Israeli government?

KEITH WEISSMAN: Close, very close.

DION NISSENBAUM: I imagine there must be times, though, when you would talk with Israeli officials and coordinate messaging.

DOUGLAS BLOOMFIELD: There were people who had some — just drop it.

YOUSEF MUNAYYER: A former director of AIPAC said, “The lobby is like a night flower. It thrives in the darkness and shrivels in the daylight.”

DION NISSENBAUM: This is great, man.

YOUSEF MUNAYYER: AIPAC and what it’s supporting is very unpopular right now. And that is the moment where sunlight shines on the night flower.

DION NISSENBAUM: Do you feel like AIPAC operates as a foreign agent for Israel?

NERMEEN SHAIKH: The trailer to the new Zeteo documentary Night Flower: Inside AIPAC’s Fight for Influence.

We’re joined now by Dion Nissenbaum, the filmmaker behind the documentary. He’s a former Wall Street Journal foreign correspondent and two-time Pulitzer Prize finalist. Zeteo’s editor-in-chief, Mehdi Hasan, is also still with us.

Dion, let’s begin with you. Why don’t you just explain what — why you made this film now?

DION NISSENBAUM: AIPAC has become such a toxic brand in America. And I, actually, from my time in the Middle East, I spent time on the ground in Gaza, in the West Bank, in Lebanon, across the region, and I saw the real-life impacts of AIPAC’s policies. And when I came back to the U.S., I wanted to understand how they operated and how they were able to get so much influence and power in Washington. And really, this year, you’re kind of seeing them come to the forefront here. It’s become such a polarizing force in this election that this really is, I think, a crossroads for the organization as they try to recalibrate and try and take — reclaim their hold on power.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to a clip from the documentary, Night Flower: Inside AIPAC’s Fight for Influence.

DION NISSENBAUM: For months, I tried everything I could to get AIPAC officials to talk, to find out if they saw a need to change strategy. But no one was willing to go on camera. Then, as we prepared to finish the film, I got an unexpected message. After weeks of back-and-forth, this person agreed to meet. He was a longtime employee who worked with AIPAC leadership before, during and after October 7th. At his request, we granted him anonymity.

What is it that you fear about speaking out?

FORMER AIPAC STAFFER: I’m afraid of some form of retaliation from AIPAC. When I started, it was all about the relationship. All the messaging, all their events, everything was about the relationships and why it was so important.

DION NISSENBAUM: Did that change over time?

FORMER AIPAC STAFFER: Yes. After October 7th, everything changed. Right after October 7th at AIPAC, we had an all-staff meeting. And it was about all the horrible things that had happened and what we needed to do as an organization. Howard Kohr and his team stood up and gave this talk to the entire organization. He warned us. He warned everybody. He said, “You know, this war is going to be brutal. It’s going to be bloody. You are going to see photos of horrible things: dead children, dead women and children, older people, people with disabilities. And you need to hold the line.”

You know, in all my years at AIPAC, I really actually felt like we were doing good things. And then, you know, all of a sudden, this changed everything. I have not heard that AIPAC leadership has acknowledged their toxicity. And now it’s going to be punished for it for quite a while. I decided to speak out on what’s going on with AIPAC, because I’m disappointed. Something has to change.

DION NISSENBAUM: What did you see in the relationship between AIPAC and Israeli officials? How close is that relationship? Do you feel like AIPAC operates as a foreign agent for Israel?

FORMER AIPAC STAFFER: There are times when it seems pretty clear that AIPAC is just doing Israel’s bidding, without question, without comment. Just this is what they’re doing, and we support it. There’s something missing from that equation. I believe AIPAC acts as a foreign agent in spirit these days. And even while I was working there, there are times when it really felt like that. And there’s no “but” to that. It’s simply the way, if you take something blindly, without questioning. I think there’s this, like, silent understanding that AIPAC leadership will always be in alignment with the Israeli government, no matter what.

AMY GOODMAN: That’s a former member of the inner circle of AIPAC, in this documentary, Night Flower. His voice is disguised. He’s in the dark. Dion Nissenbaum is the correspondent on this documentary, the one asking the questions. Dion, if you can talk about why this source did not want to be identified — others who worked for AIPAC do — and also the significance of what people may not be so familiar with, FARA, the Foreign Agents Registration Act, and why AIPAC is not registered as a foreign agent, the significance of this?

DION NISSENBAUM: Yeah, there’s a lot to unpack there. This guy was with the organization through October 7th. He’s the most recent member of AIPAC that we were able to talk to. And AIPAC makes people that leave the organization sign nondisclosure agreements, so they’re not allowed to talk. So he was prohibited from talking. AIPAC really tries to keep a lid on people talking. We tried over and over again to get people to talk. People are afraid to talk because they fear that the group will retaliate. We’ve already heard from other people that have spoken publicly, that are close to AIPAC, that are members of AIPAC, that they are already getting pressure for talking to us, and being told that they’ve betrayed Israel and betrayed the organization. And so, it is a group that does really hold grudges and goes after the people that speak out against it. So there is a climate of fear that it creates.

In this documentary, we wanted to look at this issue about AIPAC operating as a foreign agent for Israel. Under the law, if you are advocating for a foreign government, you need to register with the Department of Justice that you are advocating for a foreign government, which means that you have to disclose who you speak to, where you spend your money, who you’re meeting with. It provides more transparency in an effort to ensure that foreign governments are not secretly influencing American policy. AIPAC says that it is an American organization, it is funded by Americans, and that it is not directed by the Israeli government. Now, parts of that are true. We don’t know that it gets any money directly from Israel, and it is an American organization. But neither of those things disqualify it from having to register under this law. And in this documentary, we talk about what the law says. It says that you have to register under this law if you are acting at the request of a foreign government. And we talked to numerous people who showed us several examples of how AIPAC is acting at the request of Israel. And it’s really up to the Department of Justice to investigate this. There’s more that they need to examine to get to the bottom of this.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Dion, in the film you speak to David Laufman, who oversaw enforcement of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, or FARA, while working at the Justice Department under Barack Obama and Donald Trump. Let’s go to a clip.

DION NISSENBAUM: What would it mean for AIPAC to have to register under FARA?

DAVID LAUFMAN: It would mean that they have publicly acknowledged that they are acting as an agent of the government of Israel. And they would have to document and disclose every meeting and communication with members of the Israeli government, with members of Congress and their staff, members of the executive branch, including potentially White House officials. They would have to disclose a great deal of financial information.

DION NISSENBAUM: If you were to set out on an investigation to find out if AIPAC was operating as a foreign agent, where would you start?

DAVID LAUFMAN: There’s no formula, but the mere alignment of interests, without more, is not enough. If there is credible information that AIPAC engages in operations in the United States, lobbying activities or public influence activities, at the request of the Israeli government, that’s different. And then, they may have an obligation to register.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: So, Mehdi Hasan, if we could ask you about this specific point that David Laufman made about AIPAC?

MEHDI HASAN: It’s really interesting that the bar is set very high for AIPAC. Dion laid out how people misunderstand what the FARA, what the Foreign Agent Registration Act, is. It’s not just about taking money from a foreign government. It’s any kind of coordination, even a one-off, and you have to register. And David Laufman points out there, you know, what the terms are. And the line in the film that I always remember from him is “You can’t be half-pregnant; you either are or aren’t.” You either are a foreign agent, or you’re not. There’s no gray area for this, although the defenders of Israel have made this — defenders of AIPAC have made this a gray area.

What’s interesting, Amy and Nermeen, is the double standards. I do a show for Al Jazeera English. There has been a concerted effort by Republicans for many years now to have Al Jazeera register as a foreign agent because it’s funded by the government of Qatar. Al Jazeera refuses to do so, saying, “We’re an independent media organization. We don’t take any editorial lines from Qatar.” CodePink, antiwar group, Medea Benjamin’s group, is accused right now by Tom Cotton and other Republicans of being a foreign agent for the Chinese Communist Party. They claim that China is funding CodePink, and CodePink should register. Isn’t it interesting that Republicans in Congress want everyone to register as a foreign agent except AIPAC? AIPAC, which happily goes to visit Benjamin Netanyahu all the time.

Keith Weissman, former AIPAC official, in the film, says he passed classified information from the U.S. government to the Israeli Embassy. He says, “Every time we went to AIPAC, we would go and meet Bibi. We’re very close to the Israeli government.” That gets no investigation from Congress? That gets no investigation from the Department of Justice?

I interviewed Congresswoman Delia Ramirez at our Chicago premiere on Tuesday night, and I asked her. I said, “If Democrats take back the House and Senate, should this be a subject that is investigated?” She said, “Yes.” But, of course, she’s in a minority in her party. A lot of pro-Israel Democrats still take money from AIPAC and aren’t going to investigate.

So, I think it needs to be something we talk about much more, which is one of the reasons we made this film, and we produced evidence in this film for at least the beginning of an investigation.

AMY GOODMAN: Mehdi, let’s go to the final clip we have for Night Flower: Inside AIPAC’s Fight for Influence, and it starts with the man you reference, Keith Weissman, former AIPAC official at the center of a major espionage case, admitting he told Israeli officials what he thought was sensitive information he’d gotten from a Pentagon official.

KEITH WEISSMAN: Yes, absolutely. I admit that freely. I did pass it on to the Embassy of Israel.

DION NISSENBAUM: How would you describe the relationship between AIPAC and the Israeli government at this time?

KEITH WEISSMAN: Close, very close. Steve met with Rafi Barak all the time, the number two guy at the Israeli Embassy. It was routine. It’s routine for us to have relations with that level of official. Every time we went to Israel as a group of staffers, we would meet the prime minister. We’d meet Bibi. Bibi was on very good terms with a lot of the people that I was traveling with.

DION NISSENBAUM: There was just sort of an open channel between you and the Israel Embassy?

KEITH WEISSMAN: Absolutely.

AMY GOODMAN: Again, that was Keith Weissman, the former AIPAC official at the center of a major espionage case. Mehdi, we just have 20 seconds. Your final thoughts on the release of this documentary, even the title, Night Flower?

MEHDI HASAN: Yeah, a night flower shrivels in the dark, blossoms in the light. We’re trying to put some — sorry, blossoms in the dark, shrivels in the light. We’re trying to put some sunlight onto AIPAC. Go to InsideAIPAC.com to watch this film, support this film. It’s really important we draw attention to dark money in our politics from all sources, but especially from the pro-Israel side, which has gotten away with so much for so long. InsideAIPAC.com.

AMY GOODMAN: Mehdi Hasan, editor-in-chief and CEO of Zeteo, executive producer, and Dion Nissenbaum, the filmmaker behind Zeteo’s new documentary, Night Flower: Inside AIPAC’s Fight for Influence.

Coming up, Arundhati Roy on everything from India to AI. Stay with us.

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AMY GOODMAN: “Sadness” by Sri Kanta and Manjeet Amar.

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