Maoz Inon’s parents were killed in the October 7 attacks in 2023. Aziz Abu Sarah’s brother died after being tortured in an Israeli prison. The two have closely worked together calling for peace in Israel and Palestine over the past two years. They just released a book titled The Future Is Peace: A Shared Journey Across the Holy Land.

“I grew up angry. I grew up believing peace is impossible. But at some point, I realized — when I was 18 — that Maoz and I are not on the opposite side. To bring justice, to bring peace, to bring equality and dignity to all of us, we have to work together,” says Abu Sarah.

“We need enough people that realize that we have the agency to change the future, to create the future we deserve to live within,” adds Inon.

Transcript

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman.

The Future Is Peace: A Shared Journey Across the Holy Land, that’s the name of a new book by our next guests, Aziz Abu Sarah and Maoz Inon. One is a Palestinian peace activist, the other an Israeli peace activist. They first met after Maoz Inon’s parents were killed in the October 7th, 2023, attacks by Hamas. Over the past two years, they’ve closely worked together calling for peace in Israel and Palestine.

In a moment, they join us. But first, I want to turn to an excerpt from the documentary The Path Forward, directed by Julie Cohen and Mo Husseini. The clip begins with Aziz talking about reaching out to Maoz after October 7th.

AZIZ ABU SARAH: It didn’t matter to me that Maoz’s parents were Jewish. That’s not part of the calculation. When people talk about October 7th, it’s Israelis versus Palestinians. It didn’t feel to me Israelis versus Palestinians. Those who were hurt, those who were killed were my people, too.

MAOZ INON: I just replied immediately, “Thank you for being there.”

AZIZ ABU SARAH: A few days later, he made a post on Twitter.

MAOZ INON TWEET: “I am not crying for my parents — I am crying for those who will lose their lives in this war.”

AZIZ ABU SARAH: He doesn’t want revenge, and he doesn’t want what’s happened to him to cause more people to suffer. And I said it took me eight years to come to that point. When my brother Tayseer died, he was 19 years old, and I was 10 years old. He was arrested on suspicion of throwing rocks. He was beaten up in prison by an Israeli soldier, which caused internal injuries. He died as a result of those injuries. It’s still painful. A few days after Maoz’s parents were killed, just I can’t imagine stepping out of your pain to think of somebody else’s pain, to think of what other people are going through. It takes so much of a humanity of someone to do that. So I wrote him that, and he sent me a message right away, saying, “Let’s talk.”

MAOZ INON: I knew that my life has changed dramatically. It’s not just what happened to my parents, my childhood friends and Israelis. I knew that a war was just about to happen, and a war that we have never experienced before in our lifetime. So, every contact, every bridge, every relationship that I knew that I will be able to build with Palestinians, it’s very meaningful, not just for me, Maoz, as a person, but for the region.

AMY GOODMAN: An excerpt from the short documentary The Path Forward, directed by Julie Cohen and Mo Husseini.

In 2024, Aziz Abu Sarah and Maoz Inon met with Pope Francis. And just about a year ago, they then met with Pope Leo, shortly after he became pope.

We’re joined in studio by Aziz and Maoz, co-authors of this new book, The Future Is Peace: A Shared Journey Across the Holy Land.

Aziz, what makes you so hopeful to say the future is peace?

AZIZ ABU SARAH: I’m hopeful because I’ve worked in many other conflicts around the world. I was in Colombia. I was in Northern Ireland. I was in South Africa. I was in all these places. And what I’ve learned is that it doesn’t matter how horrible a moment is. And the moment we are in today is very terrible. I have friends in Gaza who lost their entire families. I have friends like Maoz, who lost his parents. My brother was killed. That every conflict ends at the end.

AMY GOODMAN: How did your brother die?

AZIZ ABU SARAH: My brother died due to —

AMY GOODMAN: And how old was he?

AZIZ ABU SARAH: He died due to torture in Israeli prison when he was arrested on allegation of throwing rocks. He was taken from home. And he refused to confess, so he was tortured, and he died soon after he was released from prison. He was 19 when he died, and I was 10. And so, I grew up angry. I grew up believing peace is impossible.

But at some point, I realized, when I was 18, that Maoz and I are not on the opposite side. To bring justice, to bring peace, to bring equality and dignity to all of us, we have to work together. It can’t be Israelis versus Palestinians. It has to be those of us who believe in justice and equality and peace working together versus those who don’t believe it yet. And the goal is to bring everyone to believe in it, as well. And we will get there, because if they did it in Northern Ireland and if they did it in South Africa and they dismantled oppression and systems of oppression in those places, then there’s no reason we cannot do it.

AMY GOODMAN: How do you see it ending here? How do you see the occupation ending?

AZIZ ABU SARAH: The solution, I think, is less the problem, in the sense it can work in a one-state solution, can work in two-state solution, can work in confederation, which would be my preferred solution. But I think the more important is what are the values and what this solution is built on. Any solution that is not based on equality, any solution that does not see dignity, recognition and safety for everyone, it will fail. It can be two states, like Russia and Ukraine are two states. It’s not working. It can be Rwanda, one state. We saw what happened there. It’s all about what values you build on. And if we don’t promote those values and say Maoz’s life and my life and my family’s life and his family’s life are equal, then every solution would fail. That’s what we should be focusing on.

AMY GOODMAN: Maoz, can you talk about your feelings when Aziz reached out to you, and then this friendship that you have developed over these years, with both of your parents now dead?

MAOZ INON: Yeah, so, it was only three days after I lost my parents and many of my childhood friends and people I knew my entire life, and I was literally — not as a metaphor, I was literally drowning in an ocean of sorrow and pain. And when Aziz reached out to me three days after, offering his condolences, it was like a hand saving me from drowning in this ocean. And in the last two-and-a-half years, we’ve been working together, quartering The Future Is Peace. And now I can say, yes, the October 7th was the most tragic day of my life. I lost so much and so many. But on that day, I also won Aziz. And I won Aziz as a brother, and a brother to our shared journey.

And I’m hopeful, because I know that all conflicts end in the end. It doesn’t matter if they last days, weeks, months, years or decades or centuries. History proved the end’s in the end. And the only question we should ask ourselves is when and how many lives will be lost. And what is already proven through history, that we need enough people, enough people that realize that we have the agency to change the future, to create the future we deserve to live within.

And this is exactly some of the — many of the stories we bring to life in our shared journey is stories from biblical time, mythology, history, and we share many stories of the people we meet. We are meeting Batya Segev, a friend of my parents from the kibbutz, who lost her daughter, her son-in-law and two of her grandchild. And an hour after, we were speaking to Abdul Rahim in Gaza, who lost so many of his family members. And they are both sharing their pain, their suffering, but they also encourage us, supporting us on our shared journey.

AMY GOODMAN: As you speak to the Jewish community here in the United States, I’m wondering your thoughts and your sense of how many, for example, feel the way Senator Bernie Sanders does, who has promised to advance a resolution to block bombs and bulldozers to Israel in Congress.

MAOZ INON: I think what matters is not where they are today; it’s where they can be in the future. And one of the most remembered day in the life of the state of Israel was the day Anwar el-Sadat, the president in [Egypt], visited Israel in 1977, only four years after he waged war over Israel. And two weeks before, the entire discourse in Israel, in the Jewish diaspora, were against negotiation, not against peace agreement, not against a land swap. They were against negotiation. And the day after he visited Israel, the discourse changed completely.

So, we need to remember ourselves that — and the others, that discourse, public opinion, it’s very — they are very flexible. And we, the leaders, if it’s within the civil society, if it’s like Bernie Sanders, we are the one that should bring the change within the discourse.

AMY GOODMAN: Aziz, I’m wondering if you can talk about your visits with the popes, Pope Francis and then Pope Leo. Certainly, Pope Leo in the headlines right now, because Trump has been attacking the first U.S.-born pope. And Leo’s response has been, “Even though you make many prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are full of blood,” in a reference to what the U.S. has been saying overall, especially with the U.S.-Israeli attack on Iran, talking about — President Trump responding that Leo is weak on foreign policy, and going further, even releasing this AI image of himself, President Trump, as Jesus Christ.

AZIZ ABU SARAH: Yes. And I’ve read the Bible, so did Maoz, and we talk a lot about faith in our work. And in Arabic, the name of God is Salam, which means peace, and in Hebrew, it’s Shalom, which means peace, as well. And if God is peace, then his followers should be going in that direction. “Blessed are the peacemakers” is what the Bible says. “Love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you.”

When we met Pope Francis, we met him in front of 12,000, 13,000 people in the Arena di Pace, a Roman theater. And as we told our story, everyone stood up and started cheering for us. And he invited us to him and then gave us a big hug and said, “You are brothers,” which means Maoz and I are tied together forever, because in Catholicism, there’s no divorce. But he also told us the only place there’s no disagreement in the world is a cemetery. We’ll always have disagreement. It’s about how we solve these disagreements. We, as humans, can solve it through diplomacy, through talking to each other.

And it was the same when we met Pope Leo. It was very clear to us — he just had become the pope — that peace is something he prioritized. We were among the first people to meet him. He invited a delegation of peacemakers to meet with him, and he highlighted our peace work and said, “This is the work that is needed today.” So I’m not surprised to see him speaking about peacemaking.

AMY GOODMAN: I should say that Leo said — Pope Leo made his comments about “Your hands are full of blood” after Hegseth’s prayers for violence. And I wanted to end with Maoz. What responsibility does the U.S. have as an obstacle to peace, Israel backed by this enormous military might of the United States? We just have 30 seconds.

MAOZ INON: Yeah, so, the U.S. has huge responsibility in letting the war going on and supporting it with weapon and Iron Dome diplomatic approval for everything Israel is doing. But this is exactly why we are here today in your studio, Amy, to call the American people. If the common people, like ourselves, and members of the Congress and politicians and leaders, it’s with also within your agency to join us and to bring peace to the Holy Land.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you so much for being with us, Maoz Inon, Aziz Abu Sarah, co-authors of the new book The Future Is Peace: A Shared Journey Across the Holy Land.

That does it for our show. I’ll be in Los Angeles tonight through Friday night for the theatrical release of Steal This Story, Please!, the documentary about Democracy Now!, tonight at the North Hollywood Laemmle, tomorrow night in Glendale. I’ll also be in San Francisco and in Berkeley and in San Rafael and in Sonoma. Check out our — the website, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman. This is Democracy Now!